Oliver Payne - 23-11-2021 17:30:26
hello! yes we hear you :)
Olivia Ruimwijk - 23-11-2021 17:30:30
yes we hear you
Alastair Strachan - 23-11-2021 17:30:45
papa can you hear meeeee
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:30:51
Mr. Kahoot! himself!
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 17:30:54
we can hear you
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 17:31:15
In "person"! :D
Olivia Ruimwijk - 23-11-2021 17:32:32
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 17:35:02
Speak up! We're listening! :D
Christian Bretterhofer - 23-11-2021 17:35:22
how to persuade ISP that they follow ripe-690?
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:35:41
I like more content about routing, i.e. the BGP (Bridging Gap Protocol) many people don't know how IP packet forwarding works.
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 17:36:03
Massimiliano Stucchi - 23-11-2021 17:36:07
MANRS offers training
Massimiliano Stucchi - 23-11-2021 17:36:17
there's a training involving labs
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 17:36:36
thanks, I spoke too quickly: https://www.manrs.org/resources/training/
Massimiliano Stucchi - 23-11-2021 17:36:41
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:36:51
Olivia Ruimwijk - 23-11-2021 17:37:40
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 17:37:55
so I'd suggest being sure not to overlap with the modules available that MANRS has created
Olivia Ruimwijk - 23-11-2021 17:38:09
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:38:40
My hope is to offer more local language content to my ISP-representatives. So more focus on train-the-trainer for localized message transfer
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 17:39:07
thats what I was referring to - still new people entering the industry who do not know what we take for granted
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 17:39:32
absolutely Kurt, & to gauge translation effort based on 1) demand & 2) english fluency of a given market
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 17:40:07
the problem was more the "necessity" for making 2 /25 assignments out of a /24 allocation ... (digression, I know)
Dirk Meyer - 23-11-2021 17:40:07
I like to suggest a course with BGP communites for nor leaf AS.
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 17:40:55
Peter, that is more a limitation imposed by the RIPE Database business rules.
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:40:55
maybe also a suggestion to split technical content from more political content? I mean both are important, but different people are mostly responsible for it
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 17:42:45
Kurt, which topics would you put under "political"?
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 17:43:31
this is perhaps out of scope for the RIPE NCC training group, but... "if you're a device/software maker, how do you actually design systems that are compliant with various BCOPs e.g. IoT, IPv6, etc"
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:43:54
political: RIPE vs RIPE NCC, multistakeholder, IGF, etc.
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:43:58
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 17:44:18
political: roles of different entities, like ICANN, ITU, RIPE NCC, ....
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:44:28
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 17:44:43
Olivia Ruimwijk - 23-11-2021 17:44:46
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 17:44:54
also "how to participate" and "who can participate where"
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 17:45:10
IIRC labs are Cisco-only once it comes to configuration examples…chances for adding additional implementations there, too?
Olivia Ruimwijk - 23-11-2021 17:45:32
Ignas Bagdonas - 23-11-2021 17:45:59
One of the painful aspects of segregation of focus is on the protocol mechanics vs implementation of that particular instance of a protocol. Looking at the incoming engineers mostly all the time I do see an ability to replay memorized commands instead of understanding how the protocol fits into the broader context.
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 17:46:07
phessler's "BGP for sysadmins" uses OpenBGPd :-)
Olivia Ruimwijk - 23-11-2021 17:46:17
Here you can find all different services L&D is providing right now. Due to Covid no F2F
Dirk Meyer - 23-11-2021 17:46:18
there is bird or ffr
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:46:24
or: effects on merger & aquisition effects on LIR-operations
Marc Wullings - 23-11-2021 17:46:54
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 17:47:05
I decided for FRR because it looked a lot like Cisco
Leo Vegoda - 23-11-2021 17:48:13
One of the good things in the old "LIR" training course was the introduction to the wide range of different organisations involved in the delivery of Internet services. It would be great to have a simple course that introduces people new to the industry to ICANN, CENTR, PeeringDB, Euro-IX etc... and explains a little history, what they do, how they work and so on
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 17:48:25
Denesh Bhabuta - 23-11-2021 17:48:30
Leo Vegoda - 23-11-2021 17:48:31
This could help people build up a broad picture of the whole industry
Leo Vegoda - 23-11-2021 17:48:52
Oh, and NOGs
Marc Wullings - 23-11-2021 17:49:19
Great, Leo, LIR training is still around
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 17:49:22
And you have to think about the post-covid world as well.... on-site vs. on-line
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:49:32
I sometimes miss also a forum for new ISPs how to exchange ideas (i.e. a do's and dont's) like it's in the **NOG roups sometimes. Would an exchange with the local operations groups make sense?
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:49:55
Best practices with IPAM-tools how to manage IP-related data?
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:50:14
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 17:50:23
Wondering what everyone's preferences for online vs in person will be once travel and events can resume...
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 17:50:40
Go on, I write it down
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 17:50:43
in-person have much more focus IMHO
Lina Tarasonyte - 23-11-2021 17:50:59
Hi everyone, I'm Lina from the RIPE NCC. Just a reminder, this chat panel is meant for discussion ONLY. If you have questions for the speaker and you want the session chair to read it out, please write it in the Q&A window also stating your affiliation. Otherwise, you can ask questions using the microphone icon. Thank you!
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 17:51:43
I completly agree with Joey
Denesh Bhabuta - 23-11-2021 17:52:09
@Ulka I am personally for in-person, but that is because I am of the age group who are used to these things being in-person. However, for many younger generations it can be different and they may prefer online-only. The thing with in-person is the networking with others and in-person interactivity as we learn, which can be difficult to replicate under current technology when online-only.
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:52:56
@Ulka I am sure in person is preferred but not for all possible due to constraints.
Fergal Cunningham - 23-11-2021 17:52:57
We are investigating forums at the RIPE NCC so good to see a practical use case that might apply.
Christian Bretterhofer - 23-11-2021 17:53:02
travel is harder to achieve
Christian Bretterhofer - 23-11-2021 17:53:27
online is not allways possible, but easier to participate
Marc Wullings - 23-11-2021 17:53:59
Gordon Gidofalvy - 23-11-2021 17:54:33
In-person training, however, does make it much easier to separate work time from training time.
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 17:54:33
The face to face experience is usually the most satisfying, both for participants and trainers!
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 17:54:47
But it's true that we can't be everywhere all the time. :(
Massimiliano Stucchi - 23-11-2021 17:55:15
If you take my case, I am not able to take any of those exams, because I don't have the environment to do so. I can't follow their indications
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 17:56:27
it ceratinly merits more research :-)
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 17:56:58
Only did the exams, because I had an old tablet around. I did not want their software on my productive machines.
Marc Wullings - 23-11-2021 17:57:01
We will need to look into this, thanks all!
Massimiliano Stucchi - 23-11-2021 17:57:51
not only at home
Massimiliano Stucchi - 23-11-2021 17:57:54
also at the office
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 17:58:58
certificate to be able to understand and follow RIPE policies :-)
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 17:59:29
I need no vouchers, I already have all certificates. ;)
Marc Wullings - 23-11-2021 17:59:41
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 17:59:59
You can claim a voucher from the virtual event bag if you would like to try earning a certification https://ripe83.ripe.net/attend/event-bag/
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:00:01
Christoph: then spread the message!
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 18:00:02
Kurt, common sense can't be certified! :P
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 18:00:15
@Kurt I do. :)
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:00:25
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 18:01:08
But we can try to teach critical thinking!
Ignas Bagdonas - 23-11-2021 18:01:18
It is somewhat worse - they memorize how to configure an instance of say L3VPN, but do not understand how it works and what role RT does there.
Ignas Bagdonas - 23-11-2021 18:01:39
Therefore anything diverging from examples in the context of troubleshooting is a full stop.
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 18:02:03
+1 Ignas. one of my standard job interview questions is "what's the difference between a route distinguisher & a route target"
Ignas Bagdonas - 23-11-2021 18:02:21
Wait, are they different?
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:02:31
Gerardo: this is why I believe political implications for Internet related matter is as important as technical content.
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 18:02:47
but they look the same!
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 18:02:55
I agree wholly with you, Kurt
Luis Balbinot - 23-11-2021 18:03:03
Exactly Ignas. It's like learning to drive. Anyone can learn to drive a car, but now put that person in the middle of a crazy traffic jam to see what happens. BGP is easy, policy is hard.
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 18:03:23
I always ask about the difference between UDP and TCP
Leo Vegoda - 23-11-2021 18:03:30
Purple is the imperial colour!
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 18:03:36
If you want to join the graduation party on SpatialChat: https://ripe83.ripe.net/programme/parallel-events/graduation-party/
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 18:04:22
It is on Thursday, 25 November, during the lunch break from 12:00 – 12:30 (UTC+1)
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:04:35
I love the idea. Count me in
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 18:05:08
of course I know about it... btw, where is Rumy?
Evelien Schilder - 23-11-2021 18:05:12
Leo Vegoda - 23-11-2021 18:05:56
I did some of the micro learning courses and was impressed
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 18:06:11
Something we always wonder about is how do we get our LIR contacts to spread the word about our trainings to their colleagues. We send out emails and our webinar schedules, but often comes down to people needing to forward our emails on to their colleagues (who might not know who we are)...
Aaron Hughes - 23-11-2021 18:06:29
Yes and yes, M&G team when picking up registration
Anders Mundt Due - 23-11-2021 18:06:38
micro learning sounds like an appealing concept
Anders Mundt Due - 23-11-2021 18:07:27
I really like the idea of .. ehm.. byte sized teaching :-)
William Johnson - 23-11-2021 18:07:41
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 18:07:43
"Update a record in the RIPE Database"
Aaron Hughes - 23-11-2021 18:07:44
I also recall years ago Rumy and Nat doing a big push to sign people up and take quizzes
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 18:07:54
a rather challenging training & certification would be... global BGP anycast routing :-)
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 18:09:25
followed by "why 240/4 will not mitigate v4 depletion' ;-0
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 18:10:12
sub-allocated-PA learning :-)
Denesh Bhabuta - 23-11-2021 18:11:36
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 18:11:37
Aaron Hughes - 23-11-2021 18:11:44
Gerardo Viviers - 23-11-2021 18:11:57
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 18:12:13
Fergal Cunningham - 23-11-2021 18:12:13
Just "Learning" but in 6 point font size ;)
Robert Blechinger - 23-11-2021 18:15:37
4-bit learning? --> learning by the nibble ?
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 18:16:05
Good comment Leo. I think in general the Access 2FA system needs more options
Oliver Payne - 23-11-2021 18:16:05
@Leo do you mean taking the course on your mobile device?
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 18:16:28
I really don't want my NCC access to be dependent upon an android app...
Leo Vegoda - 23-11-2021 18:16:35
@Oliver - Yes. At least for 5-10 min courses
Oliver Payne - 23-11-2021 18:16:53
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 18:18:50
Always interesting to hear why people choose to get certified - what motivates you to earn a badge?
Denis Fondras - 23-11-2021 18:19:58
the ego :D
Anders Mundt Due - 23-11-2021 18:20:20
Certified Ripe Associate Professional ? ;)
Fergal Cunningham - 23-11-2021 18:20:27
Also interested in Ulka's other question above - Are there people not in our member contact list who need the training? If so, how should we spread the word?
(And thanks Blake and whoever else is passing on the good word about our courses and certifications!)
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 18:20:45
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:21:16
I generally like certification. RIPE gets more attention and visibility.
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 18:21:19
I like certifications because it feels like getting a level up and validation, that I have learned something.
Anders Mundt Due - 23-11-2021 18:21:52
certification could be a good way to promote RIPE through the industry
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:21:55
I just don't like so much the "hall-of-fame" or external badge collection sites. There should be an easier way.
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 18:22:11
My company is not so fancy with this web things, I think they would prefer a PDF.
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:22:37
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 18:22:46
You can also download your badge as a PDF certificate if you want to go old-school
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 18:22:58
Badges are "nice", but I prefer an "old-school" pretty PDF certificate ;-)
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 18:23:14
Yes, but the Acclaim PDF is ugly compared to other certifications.
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 18:23:22
you can tain the trainers :-)
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:23:23
Anders Mundt Due - 23-11-2021 18:23:38
tags in the ripe-db :)
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 18:23:45
@Robert we'll look into making our certificates prettier!
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:23:48
Blake: they had this concept, but it got dropped some time..
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 18:24:30
Thanks, Ulka :)
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 18:24:53
Please get in touch with me or send us an email on exams [at] ripe [dot] net if you would like to connect us with trade schools
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 18:25:17
furthering on Wolfgang's remarks: learning materials are, well, ancient (as maybe the curricula) and what he said about classful IP(v4), but that needs a wider industry effort; v6 for "apprentice" level education would be extremely useful
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 18:25:34
I think the DNS/IPAM/address-assignment training/cert is a generally good idea, not too much else out there in the industry
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 18:25:38
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 18:25:55
Ulka: I will get you in contact with one or two teachers I know
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:26:04
Is there no option to keep exam completely free of charge for members?
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 18:26:04
That would be great :)
Evelien Schilder - 23-11-2021 18:26:47
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 18:27:00
Regarding "BGP is easy, policy is hard", would a course about Network Requirement Engineering course nice? I mean something a bit less technical, but more socials to get tech to work in a broader focus,
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 18:27:04
does not have to be free (whats free isn't worth anything for some people), cheap (like EUR 20) would be good enough
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 18:27:09
"train the teacher" as an offer, might be worth another BoF
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 18:27:17
+1 Wolfgang, for apprentices and/or students
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 18:27:24
Anders Mundt Due - 23-11-2021 18:27:28
it's been a good and interresting BoF, please do again!
William Johnson - 23-11-2021 18:28:21
Evelien Schilder - 23-11-2021 18:28:36
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 18:28:40
Yes - we have a voucher giveaway in the virtual event bag - and the cool purple hoodie Will is wearing if you earn the IPv6 Security Expert badge
Anders Mundt Due - 23-11-2021 18:29:16
a cool purple hoodie is *so* much better than a random pdf :)
Ignas Bagdonas - 23-11-2021 18:29:17
It is less about the policy itself from the perspective of how do you turn a knob on a particular box, but on the (global) routing control by understanding what the knobs can and cannot do and what are the implications of turning or not turning them.
Ignas Bagdonas - 23-11-2021 18:29:28
It is tightly coupled with network design aspects.
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 18:29:45
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:29:48
thanks for this nice BoF!
Christoph Berkemeier - 23-11-2021 18:29:55
Evelien Schilder - 23-11-2021 18:30:15
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 18:30:24
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:30:36
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 18:30:41
Fergal Cunningham - 23-11-2021 18:30:41
Go L&D! Nice BoF.
Ulka Athale - 23-11-2021 18:30:44
Aaron Hughes - 23-11-2021 18:30:49
Thank you everyone
Olivia Ruimwijk - 23-11-2021 18:30:50
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 18:30:55
Karla Wagner - 23-11-2021 18:30:59
`Thank you, awesome !!!
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 18:31:02
Lina Tarasonyte - 23-11-2021 18:31:07
This session has now ended. Sessions will continue tomorrow. More info on the RIPE 83 meeting plan is here: https://ripe83.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/
Have a good evening!