Maxim Burtikov - 23-11-2021 10:31:01
Hi everyone, I'm Maxim from the RIPE NCC. This chat panel is meant for discussion ONLY. If you have questions for the speaker and you want the session chair to read it out, please write it in the Q&A window also stating your affiliation. Otherwise, you can ask questions using the microphone icon.
Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public on https://ripe83.ripe.net/.
Miguel Alktun - 23-11-2021 10:31:02
Good Morning
Hervé Clément - 23-11-2021 10:31:05
Good morning james, all :)
Marco Schmidt - 23-11-2021 10:31:09
Good morning
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 10:31:09
Good morning!
Sergey Myasoedov - 23-11-2021 10:31:10
Good morning!
Chris Buckridge - 23-11-2021 10:31:11
can hear you all
Brian Nisbet - 23-11-2021 10:31:12
We hear Erik!
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:31:16
Hi!
Matt Parker - 23-11-2021 10:31:23
Morning!
Garri Djavadyan - 23-11-2021 10:31:23
Good morning everyone
Samuel Uzoechi - 23-11-2021 10:31:25
I see the webric and presenters
Markus Aberham - 23-11-2021 10:32:00
Good morning!
Samuel Uzoechi - 23-11-2021 10:32:04
I am trying the google chrome option, still loading
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 10:32:17
nice beard, Eric :-)
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:32:39
Samuel, you can listen to the hls stream meanwhile.
Eduard Vasilenko - 23-11-2021 10:32:54
I have changed Chrome to MS Edge -> no radio anyway
Philipp Adam - 23-11-2021 10:34:30
I switched to linux ... I've the same issue on Win11 with every browser ... everything, even soundtest is working, but no sound in stream
Eduard Vasilenko - 23-11-2021 10:35:20
Exactly
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:35:21
And when you look at the audio mixer it doesn't show any activity?
Eduard Vasilenko - 23-11-2021 10:35:35
it shows 17Kbps
Samuel Uzoechi - 23-11-2021 10:35:37
Yes
Samuel Uzoechi - 23-11-2021 10:36:31
Test local speaker and it will produce a bell like sound but still no audio
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 10:36:34
Can you stop the echo?
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 10:36:39
Thanks :)
Eduard Vasilenko - 23-11-2021 10:37:03
@Samuel +1
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:37:14
I suspect that this is related to websocket, it might fallback to an hls stream or something and perhaps that's what's not working.
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:37:37
Or it's just the audio codec that's not supported by your systems.
Ruben van Staveren - 23-11-2021 10:39:50
Given safari on Monterry another try, but still no audio. Can't imagine that e.g. ghostery is disabling that
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:40:17
I would suggest you try Firefox because it embeds the codecs instead of using those provided by the OS.
Eduard Vasilenko - 23-11-2021 10:40:30
I have changed to a desktop computer (no video, microphone) - it works now.
Ruben van Staveren - 23-11-2021 10:40:32
Yes that works
Fergal Cunningham - 23-11-2021 10:41:32
There is tech support available from the RIPE NCC. They can help sort issues out: https://ripe83.ripe.net/attend/meeting-support/
Daniel Karrenberg - 23-11-2021 10:41:39
👋🏻
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 10:43:07
no audio from nurani
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 10:43:08
no audio
Marco Schmidt - 23-11-2021 10:43:11
no audio
Mirjam Kühne - 23-11-2021 10:43:12
Nurani, we cannot hear you
Brian Nisbet - 23-11-2021 10:43:24
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Nurani!
Florian Streibelt - 23-11-2021 10:43:27
very very silent!
Mikel Lyjak - 23-11-2021 10:43:29
there is audio - its just quiet
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:43:45
Yes, we can hear her but it's very quiet.
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 10:43:57
perhaps wrong microphone selected
James Kennedy - 23-11-2021 10:44:21
Nurani, great job with ASO AC and huge thanks 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Julf Helsingius - 23-11-2021 10:44:42
So many mics these days...
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 10:44:50
turn up mic?
Marco Schmidt - 23-11-2021 10:45:29
thank you Nurani :clap:
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:46:40
Slide + audio OK. :)
Töma Gavrichenkov - 23-11-2021 10:46:42
Slides are being streamed just fine :-)
Töma Gavrichenkov - 23-11-2021 10:46:49
Same with the audio )
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:49:33
No audio for Sander.
Marco Schmidt - 23-11-2021 10:49:36
no audio Sander
Julf Helsingius - 23-11-2021 10:49:43
We seem to have a generic audio problem...
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 10:49:46
Sorry, don't want to speak
Jan Zorz - 23-11-2021 10:49:51
gotta love Meetecho :)
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 10:49:53
Just here for questions
Nurani Nimpuno - 23-11-2021 10:49:58
So frustrating with these technical problems!
Nurani Nimpuno - 23-11-2021 10:50:55
Can we consider another platform for next time? I got kicked out, had problems getting back in and when I was in I kept having to request audio and video but then lost the right and had to request it again. Rather frustrating.
Anastasia Sendrea - 23-11-2021 10:50:58
Yes Hi I'm Here
Herman Ângelo Ramos - 23-11-2021 10:51:14
Maybe there is need to activate the mic on top or no?
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 10:51:27
Is this for ICANN ASO?
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 10:51:30
for anyone who wnats to take it
Jan Zorz - 23-11-2021 10:51:30
Nurani: I would propose a proper venue next time and in-person meeting ;)
James Kennedy - 23-11-2021 10:51:31
I also had terrible audio issues before the session, took me an hour to resolve...
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 10:51:42
Jan: oh yes.
Nurani Nimpuno - 23-11-2021 10:51:49
@jan - Many times yes
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:51:57
Well, it's webrtc. So you need a reliable connection and a web browser that supports all the required codecs.
Remco van Mook - 23-11-2021 10:52:17
@paul you maked that sound like a trivial task :)
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 10:52:24
All other platforms I have used over the last two years were worse
Jan Zorz - 23-11-2021 10:52:32
and then we can get rid of zoom/meetecho/etc and go back to just youtube streaming and be done with all this
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:52:51
There is an HLS stream just in case.
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 10:52:52
I have also more offline competence :-)
Remco van Mook - 23-11-2021 10:53:05
we should be using twitch and tiktok like all the cool kids :)
Paul Boissel dombreval - 23-11-2021 10:53:35
You need to report your OS and web browser versions so that Meetecho can try to reproduce the problems.
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 10:54:03
Remco: very true, for gaming they have great tools (discord!)
Wessel Sandkuijl - 23-11-2021 10:54:04
@Remco: Using TikTok videos instead of presentations would compact the entire RIPE83 meeting to one morning.
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 10:54:40
thanks, Töma
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 10:55:13
hmm I wish we had some mre time to talk to the candidates
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 10:56:02
I'll be at https://jitsi.nog.community/TheBar soon :)
Jan Zorz - 23-11-2021 10:56:06
Remco: splash, also :)
Florian Streibelt - 23-11-2021 10:56:57
This is the way! (scnr)
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 10:58:08
great. so you can tell me what do you think NRO is not doing that it should be doing later. Also I want to know your opinion on NRO's potential role in creating collective action and preserving the global interoperable nature of the Internet :) sorry a bit loaded...
Nurani Nimpuno - 23-11-2021 10:59:43
@remco - I like your thinking. But I clearly need to upgrade my gaming gear then for added cred. (Read: Steal my son's stuff)
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 11:03:04
discord is not a gaming app anymore. it's very similar to slack now. they still call channels servers though..
Anastasia Sendrea - 23-11-2021 11:03:34
To Peter Koch’s question and maybe a bit Farzaneh’s: Absent global policies, ASO/NRO could develop best practices for responding to issues related to compliance that are otherwise studied in the Cooperation WG
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 11:04:48
Thanks Anastasia. and good to meet here again :)
Hans Petter Holen - 23-11-2021 11:05:22
The responsibilities of the ASO Address Council can be found here: https://aso.icann.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ASO-MoU-Executed-Nov-7-2019.pdf
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 11:07:26
who is the board member?
Hervé Clément - 23-11-2021 11:07:47
ICANN Board member ?
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 11:07:58
yeah
Hans Petter Holen - 23-11-2021 11:08:15
https://aso.icann.org/icann-board/board-appointments/
Hans Petter Holen - 23-11-2021 11:08:35
Alan Barrett until 2024
Hans Petter Holen - 23-11-2021 11:08:52
Akinori Maemura until 2022
Hervé Clément - 23-11-2021 11:09:13
the ongoing seat 10 process is to replace Nurani
Hervé Clément - 23-11-2021 11:09:21
sorry Akinori
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:09:34
yes
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 11:09:55
really a good effort to elect a non-male next time would be wonderful.
Hervé Clément - 23-11-2021 11:10:16
we really care about diversity
Ruben van Staveren - 23-11-2021 11:10:29
Great to hear this
Anastasia Sendrea - 23-11-2021 11:12:28
to add, re my answer: the suggestion is also beyond the NRO role with regards to appointment of individuals on ICANN bodies.
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 11:12:29
Perfect. this is a really great initiative.
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 11:14:15
Good to see you again Marco!
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:14:23
this!
Hervé Clément - 23-11-2021 11:14:39
100% agree with Steffann
Denis Fondras - 23-11-2021 11:16:44
IPv4 hoarding is so sad
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 11:17:16
...and more and more /24s polluting BGP
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:17:41
Well that is "as desgined" isn't it?
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:17:55
As in: Part of the policy introduced a while back
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 11:18:07
I'm torn on this topic. On one hand hoarding is not good, on the other hand: IPv6 deployment will only happen when IPv4 deployment hurts badly
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 11:18:25
And in that regard I don't mind having the waiting list active at all
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:18:32
these /24s are sad, but compared to the 300.000 "routing vandalism" /24s they are not the most ugly bit in the BGP table
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:18:35
Does anyone has any hope we can fix this policy in anyway? The last attemps blew up spectacularly IIRC
Ruben van Staveren - 23-11-2021 11:18:46
agree, but I still see people being mystified on IPv6 deployment
Ruben van Staveren - 23-11-2021 11:19:07
seen as a "add on" to IPv4
Michael Richardson - 23-11-2021 11:19:15
This sure looks like entities hoarding for later resell.
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:19:17
Maximilian: indeed, hard question.
Florian Streibelt - 23-11-2021 11:19:42
Horders can just create new legal entities and make them members, so we probably cannot stop it?
Harry Cross - 23-11-2021 11:20:04
@florian, especially in some jurisdictions like the UK
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:20:05
Florian: this is why it is not trivial ("one /24 per member!!") to solve.
Harry Cross - 23-11-2021 11:20:12
where a new entity is £12 and a form
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 11:20:15
Florian: yep
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:20:26
we tried this for the /22, and all it led to was "umbrella corporations", hiding the true owner
Michael Richardson - 23-11-2021 11:20:30
I like Peter's proposal, but maybe not "forever"... maybe some long period ... 10 years or something.
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:20:31
I do like Peter's suggestion
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 11:20:38
+1
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:20:38
"THIS MAY NOT BE TRANSFERRED, DOT."
Harry Cross - 23-11-2021 11:20:56
+1 for Peter, but for a very long period like 10-20 years
Wessel Sandkuijl - 23-11-2021 11:21:14
Other regions (APNIC/ARIN) are doing 5-6 years I believe. That could work.
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 11:21:15
Will it find consensus? Mind, horders are part of the community too.
Radu-Adrian Feurdean - 23-11-2021 11:21:16
Then how do you deal with companies changing names ?
Rinse Kloek - 23-11-2021 11:21:22
What happens if your company get's aquired ?
Ruben van Staveren - 23-11-2021 11:21:26
I like Peter's suggestion too. a similar approach is being done in the Netherlands wrt the housing market, with hoarding real estate properties
Rinse Kloek - 23-11-2021 11:21:34
Exactly what Erik is saying
Denis Fondras - 23-11-2021 11:21:38
Forever looks like a good duration
Radu-Adrian Feurdean - 23-11-2021 11:21:46
... or with a company being sold entirely (including the LIR account) ?
Radu-Adrian Feurdean - 23-11-2021 11:21:55
yes....
Job Snijders - 23-11-2021 11:22:08
ring ring bananaphone!
Nurani Nimpuno - 23-11-2021 11:22:13
hahahaha
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 11:22:14
ooh throwback 50s
Denesh Bhabuta - 23-11-2021 11:22:16
Hello.. can't take the call right now.. I am in a meeting!
Michael Richardson - 23-11-2021 11:22:36
if some new company starts an ISP, and then gets acquired, the acquiring company now winds up with an obligation to keep the subdiary legal for the ten years...
Denis Fondras - 23-11-2021 11:22:40
@Radu: the buyer will have to be ready for this
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:22:54
+1 to Gert
Denis Fondras - 23-11-2021 11:23:03
or give the prefix back
Radu-Adrian Feurdean - 23-11-2021 11:23:11
@denis, the motivated ones are
Peter Hessler - 23-11-2021 11:23:22
re: what about acquisition/merger etc etc, basically the new owner needs to keep the LIR account active to keep the prefix
Anders Mundt Due - 23-11-2021 11:23:56
I fear that spam mails seen recently, "Would you like to buy IPv4 - we have multiple /22s" could well be a hint what happened to some of the /22s
Alex Le Heux - 23-11-2021 11:23:57
just as it's easy in Europe to start new companies, it's easy to find out who owns them... so finding out who the 'real' holder is something the RIPE NCC could do
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:24:10
yes, but what would be the net benefit?
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:24:11
We voted in the AGM for "DB accuracy" a while back. I fear we would have to give that up with such a restriction as people will find loop holes
Peter Hessler - 23-11-2021 11:24:37
as I said, this is only the starting thoughts on a proposed policy, so there are corners that we'll need to address and polish up
Alex Le Heux - 23-11-2021 11:24:58
wasn't the idea behind the waiting list and all that that there was a way for new entrants to receive address space?
Ruben van Staveren - 23-11-2021 11:24:58
company mergers might force more ipv6 use due to this legal barrier. it is policing though, which is a can of worms
Alex Le Heux - 23-11-2021 11:25:07
if that's still the idea, something's not working
Ondrej Filip - 23-11-2021 11:25:15
Thank you HPH.
Peter Hessler - 23-11-2021 11:25:38
I think one of the core features of the proposal, is the hassle and expense of running several LIR accounts will be a deterrent
Jelte Jansen - 23-11-2021 11:26:06
such as the next step of having multiple companies to register more space, which is having a company with the address space as its only asset, and selling the entire company instead of the address space :p
Peter Hessler - 23-11-2021 11:26:19
but yea, start of a thought
Michael Richardson - 23-11-2021 11:26:48
+1 on Sander
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 11:26:49
That would be a nice T-Shirt... "let IPv4 rot in hell"
Ruben van Staveren - 23-11-2021 11:26:59
+1
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 11:27:01
/me gets on it
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:27:02
Wolfgang: +1 :-)
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 11:27:16
I couldn't resist :)
Rinse Kloek - 23-11-2021 11:27:17
I also had this issue Marco now presents
Rinse Kloek - 23-11-2021 11:27:34
I only could create /25 assignments for my /24 allocation
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:27:45
When will we see /25 and /26 in the DFZ?
Rinse Kloek - 23-11-2021 11:28:02
But this /24 was just assigned to a single network. So I crated two identical /25 assignment
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 11:28:14
The lack of assignments is IMHO not only a /24-related issue, it's also an issue for older, larger LIRs, which are just too lazy to perform assignments but leaving the allocation.
James Kennedy - 23-11-2021 11:28:35
@Wolfgang Zenker, thank you for your question in the Q&A. We're short on time, please share this on the mailing list and let's develop the conversation there
Wolfgang Tremmel - 23-11-2021 11:28:36
According to a comment on the chat yesterday there are already /25s and smaller being announced. Just a lot of folks still filter them out.
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:28:41
Let's drop assignments for a /24 allocation an move on
James Kennedy - 23-11-2021 11:29:37
@Chuene, Jordi has responded to you in the Q&A
Michael Richardson - 23-11-2021 11:30:05
hypothesis: the people grabbing 5+ LIRs for IPv4 are just doing the same for IPv6, being ignorant.
Peter Hessler - 23-11-2021 11:30:09
several of our /24 allocations *are* the assignment, and not being able to create the database objects is the blocker for creating the assignment. naturally, the route, domain, and roa objects exist for them.
Rinse Kloek - 23-11-2021 11:30:11
One of the isssues I experienced is that when a access ISP is going to rollout, it discovered that the /29 is not enough
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:30:14
I really really want to understand what is the motivation behind "more than 10 IPv6 blocks for a single member"
Peter Hessler - 23-11-2021 11:30:42
@Gert I imagine many of those also have the same N last-/8-IPv4 blocks
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:30:42
+1 to Gert
Nathalie Trenaman - 23-11-2021 11:30:44
baffeling isn't it?
Rinse Kloek - 23-11-2021 11:30:53
@Michael, agree. It's for free, so why not
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:30:55
As I said, I understand "a handful" due to "enterprise politics" or "non-connected networks" (and I think that's still good use) - but 100??
Martin Pels - 23-11-2021 11:31:30
are these maybe the same LIRs that are opened for more IPV4, and they just ask for IPV6 while they're at it? The graphs look similar
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:31:40
@Peter I can only speculate (did not check the data), but yes, "let's get a /29 together with the /22" sounds like one option
Jelte Jansen - 23-11-2021 11:32:07
the overlap between the two does seem relevant
Maxim Burtikov - 23-11-2021 11:33:10
Hi Martin, please write your question in the Q&A panel (icon with question mark) or please wait until the end of the talk and ask your question using audio. Thank you!
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:33:10
seconding the upcoming questing from Maximilian - it would be good to see how many of those are announced and used
Martin Pels - 23-11-2021 11:33:22
@maxim i see it's already been asked
Ruediger Volk - 23-11-2021 11:33:34
@Maximilian: longer than /24 has been seen leaking for years - but full DFZ distribution is being blocked. Operator consensus to stop blocking is NOT going to happen - and that IS GOOD if there is no mechanism to prevent rogue deagregation
Michael Richardson - 23-11-2021 11:34:17
I wanted to know if my hypothesis is possible/correct.
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:35:34
Sky Italia had to go back for a second IPv6 allocation, IIRC
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:35:36
Brand new ISP
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:36:04
@Rüdiger: I know the bad parts in the DFZ. I was hinting on lowering the "generally accepted prefix length down a bit (or two)". I'm waiting for this to come up as a proposal
Michael Richardson - 23-11-2021 11:36:14
But, I'm sure @Tom that Sky Italia is announcing both blocks.
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:36:16
Richard Patterson did a presentation which mentioned the IPv6 allocation policies.
Alex Le Heux - 23-11-2021 11:36:17
@Leo: I've seen organsiations that did exactly that, both with v4 and v6. Uniqueness of internal, non-routed, space is a thing.
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:36:19
Maximilian: towards /23? I'm in!
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:36:35
@Gert wrong direction ;-)
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:36:43
@Michael no doubt, but with reference to the suggested policy adjustment
Peter Hessler - 23-11-2021 11:36:58
@Max ARIN tried that a couple years ago as part of their last /8 policy, and they later gave it up because almost none of the announcements were accepted
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:37:17
:-D
Emile Aben - 23-11-2021 11:37:25
We tried measuring that: https://labs.ripe.net/author/emileaben/has-the-routability-of-longer-than-24-prefixes-changed/
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:38:51
There are still too many ISPs that will de-agg to whatever size you make the minimum, "for security"
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:39:17
@tom where is the routing police when you need them...
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:39:18
The /48 choice for PI space in IPv6 has meant that over 50% of the IPv6 DFZ is /48s
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:39:48
@Gert it's not even that, just "consider the knock-on effect"
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:40:29
sub-percent range
Remco van Mook - 23-11-2021 11:40:46
so why are we spending brain cycles at all on this
Michael Richardson - 23-11-2021 11:41:04
Because we smell a rat.
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:41:14
Remco: I read this as "understand trends, and understand *if* there is a need to act"
Remco van Mook - 23-11-2021 11:42:14
the rat is default big mac menu templates for new registrations - it doesn't cost anything to get a /29 ipv6 so why not ask for one
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:42:19
I am not worried about v6 depletion (yet), but if our policies encourage visible silliness, maybe changing the policy ("up to a /24" instead of "/29", if(!) that is the reason for multiple /29s) might be necessary. Or not.
Remco van Mook - 23-11-2021 11:42:27
'would you like a free cookie? - no, I'm on a diet'
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:42:30
visible silliness, that is
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 11:42:30
well I think Jordi had a point about look at the issue from a policy angle... but I think my opinion might not matter much in this instance...
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:43:45
maybe the ARIN model of "you pay more if you have more blocks" is reasonable after all, even though I always thought it was not.
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:44:14
Let the marked take care of it? How FDP of you :-D
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 11:44:21
@Gert: it would certainly help to prevent massive deaggregation.
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:44:23
(the "a larger block costs more" is something I would oppose, though, as it leads to silliness inside, not having sufficient space for end customers then)
Leo Vegoda - 23-11-2021 11:45:03
There have been ARIN policy proposals to support much smaller allocations to work around its charging scheme
Remco van Mook - 23-11-2021 11:45:09
massive deaggregation in the v6 routing table is not a problem in the space of /29 -> /24 as far as I can see - it's a new swamp of /48s
Kurt Kayser - 23-11-2021 11:45:23
remco: +1
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:46:25
Weren't there best practices to only accept /44 or /40 of PA and only /48 for PI? Seems like that's not widely adopted?
Peter Hessler - 23-11-2021 11:46:47
@Max I think that "best" practice was thrown in the bin where it belongs
Peter Hessler - 23-11-2021 11:47:14
here's a nickle kid, buy yourself enough memory for the DFZ
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:47:32
@leo this - and I think this is not the right way to go with IPv6. We need to make good use of the space, not turn it into market-driven scarcity
Marco d'Itri - 23-11-2021 11:47:45
some major networks (I remember Akamai) started deaggregating outside of the /48 PI space, and at that point strict filtering was not viable anymore
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:47:52
@Peter meh
Remco van Mook - 23-11-2021 11:48:01
the best practice is that you can bring your own /48 to your cloud provider, and you don't want things to break.
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:48:32
/48 is the new /24
Remco van Mook - 23-11-2021 11:48:34
the whole concept of a single hierarchy for your network is somewhat outdated
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:48:34
Well let's shutdown IPv4 then we have lots of space for /48s, problem solved
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:48:38
"For security innit"
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:48:44
@max: +1
Christian Bretterhofer - 23-11-2021 11:48:58
@max +1
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:49:23
Yeah BYOIP changed the picture a lot and I guess we haven't reached the peak yet
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:49:39
s/'IPv4 Flag DAy'/'IPv4 Shutdown Day'/ :)))
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:50:02
(My match failed there, but you get the idea)
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 11:50:08
getting (most) IPv4 out of your FIB frees up a heck of a lot of space for IPv6...
Robert Leichssenring - 23-11-2021 11:50:16
yes
Michael Richardson - 23-11-2021 11:50:27
route add 0.0.0.0/0 via 8.8.8.8
Mickael Do Couto - 23-11-2021 11:50:42
IPv4 will go away as soon as major IT/security vendors will stop selling products IPv4 only
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:50:55
I doubt that
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:51:06
and ISP finally adopt for all customers
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:51:17
It'll go away when the vast swathes of Enterprise Architects change their minds
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:51:28
In which we'll need to force the situation and just tell everyone we're turning it off.
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:51:33
And not charge extra for a /56 on a business line (30€ MRC ffs)
Anders Mundt Due - 23-11-2021 11:51:37
perhaps we're lucky that IPv4 will go from "it always works" to "somewhat broken and often bad" and that will finally be what makes people deploy ipv6
Blake Willis - 23-11-2021 11:51:39
Apparently the "last" way to get everyone to migrate to IPv6 is to turn IPv4 into a hopeless mishmash of incompatible stacks...
Anastasia Sendrea - 23-11-2021 11:52:11
Hi, this is Anastasia, I am one of the candidates mentioned for the new NRO AC seat. I might not always be available on the chat here, but if you have any questions about me, feel free to reach out to sendrea [dot] anastasia [at] gmail [dot] com or add me on Linkedin.
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 11:52:16
War of attrition, @Blake
Anastasia Sendrea - 23-11-2021 11:52:35
Also, lovely to meet you again Farzi!
Farzaneh Badiei - 23-11-2021 11:53:06
:) good luck with the election!
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:55:39
@blake: +1
Sander Steffann - 23-11-2021 11:58:10
/me volunteers too
Jordi Palet Martínez - 23-11-2021 11:58:38
count on me as well!
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:58:47
I haven't volunteered to "run this for you" but "work with you" :-)
Niall O'Reilly - 23-11-2021 11:59:00
The two musketeers! Bravi, tutti due!
Florian Streibelt - 23-11-2021 11:59:35
well, the FTTH provider I am currently connected provides IPv6 only on the business tariff
Florian Streibelt - 23-11-2021 11:59:48
@Max
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 11:59:58
@Florian name and shame!
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 11:59:58
Bummer
Niall O'Reilly - 23-11-2021 12:00:06
Sorry, I missed Jordi. s/two/three/, s/due/tre/
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 12:00:12
@Erik, as per the question: would that then make this more complicated?
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 12:00:25
In that there is no longer an inetnum structure to consult
Florian Streibelt - 23-11-2021 12:00:34
@Gert Stadtwerke Marburg via as20676.net.
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 12:00:59
ftr: I was referring to Deutsche Glasfaser
Peter Koch - 23-11-2021 12:01:02
pls issue a call on the ML
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 12:01:07
+1
James Kennedy - 23-11-2021 12:01:19
@Peter, will do
Niall O'Reilly - 23-11-2021 12:01:22
FTTC provider I'm with provides IPv6 only on the domestic (!) offering; you upgrade to business class, you lose.
Gert Doering - 23-11-2021 12:01:44
this is all very silly. Might the RIPE chair have a word with them? :-)
Job Snijders - 23-11-2021 12:01:46
Thank you all!
Florian Streibelt - 23-11-2021 12:01:51
they also 24h forced disconnect of the pppoe session on the fiber
Marco Schmidt - 23-11-2021 12:01:51
Thank you!
Maximilian Wilhelm - 23-11-2021 12:02:00
Niall: Not even for a fist of extra dollars?
Angela Dall'Ara - 23-11-2021 12:02:07
Thanks all!
Robert Scheck - 23-11-2021 12:02:22
@Maximilian: Deutsche Glasfaser has IMHO multiple strange practices.
Tom Hill - 23-11-2021 12:02:34
I'm reasonably confident that RIPE have changed the meeting agenda since I imported it with iCal :(
Maxim Burtikov - 23-11-2021 12:02:34
This session has now ended. The next session is Routing Working Group and it will start at 13:00 UTC+1. More info on the RIPE 83 meeting plan: https://ripe83.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/
